Author Topic: Start a Kickstarter!  (Read 4275 times)

Offline Loki #15 on: December 28, 2012, 09:04:56 AM

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Likes: 3
  • Gender: Male
  • Awards
    2
    4
    • View Profile
    • Awards
AAA will not be starting a Kickstarter project.

The game will be available for preorder sometime around 2013~2014.

Who made you spokesperson? Nvm.

Offline Machine Medic #16 on: December 28, 2012, 05:53:58 PM

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
  • Likes: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Been there. Done that.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Quote
We will try Kickstarter after month.

Oops.  My bad. 

Could've sworn I saw Rotakak say somewhere that they weren't going to try Kickstarter, because they already had a preorder system.
2x 980ti @1.3GHz, 5820k @ 4.4GHz, 32GB DDR4 @ 2.4GHz, SSD 950 512GB & 850 1024GB.

=\Co-Leader of Contra Clan/=

Offline Loki #17 on: December 28, 2012, 07:33:37 PM

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 707
  • Likes: 3
  • Gender: Male
  • Awards
    2
    4
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Quote
We will try Kickstarter after month.

Oops.  My bad. 

Could've sworn I saw Rotakak say somewhere that they weren't going to try Kickstarter, because they already had a preorder system.

Ok then, your apologize's being accepted.

Offline EpicalDude #18 on: December 28, 2012, 10:22:38 PM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • Awards
As it was just said in the other thread, Open-Source, Linux & Mac & Windows 3D computer game / shooter Wasteland 3
raised 1 million USD in 48 hours
and 2.9 million USD overall.

So you can have these while getting millions of funding.
http://forum.tremulous2.com/index.php?topic=48.msg596#msg596
Gunther (junior admin) : "break the forums"
Challenge accepted :8 (I won)

Offline grmg.pl #19 on: December 28, 2012, 10:58:07 PM

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
  • Likes: 4
    • View Profile
    • Awards
It was raised because of Brian Fargo, who made Fallout series.

Offline EpicalDude #20 on: December 28, 2012, 11:39:45 PM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • Awards
It was raised because of Brian Fargo, who made Fallout series.

And Tremulous2 advantage could be
- it's treeeeeem
- it's first TOTALLY FREEEEE big studio linux game!!

or

- it's treeeeeem
- works on linux
- it's at least open source even thou it's payable... always something
* get money from selling the full game (with art) payable version

so many options with various combinations of open source / freedom / payable.

Oh, anyway you can get $$ for servers or something.

Or make game+art 100% free and get $$$ for servers.

E.g. WoW could now as well be free and open source (software) because you pay for the service (servers) and economy.
http://forum.tremulous2.com/index.php?topic=48.msg596#msg596
Gunther (junior admin) : "break the forums"
Challenge accepted :8 (I won)

Offline Machine Medic #21 on: December 29, 2012, 12:19:20 AM

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
  • Likes: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Been there. Done that.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Quote
- it's treeeeeem

Nobody knows what Tremulous is.  You could ask 10,000 people on a city street, and expect about 3~4 to give you a positive answer.

Quote
E.g. WoW could now as well be free and open source (software) because you pay for the service (servers) and economy.

World of Warcraft cannot be open-source, because then everyone would hack in additional items+gold 'n shit.  It would also make botting disgustingly easy. 

Keeping T2 closed-source enables infinite possibilities for bot detection and automatic banning.  Vault Anti-Cheat is a prime example.  It will actually detect other programs on your computer that are 'scanning' the pixels on screen like color-bots.

2x 980ti @1.3GHz, 5820k @ 4.4GHz, 32GB DDR4 @ 2.4GHz, SSD 950 512GB & 850 1024GB.

=\Co-Leader of Contra Clan/=

Offline EpicalDude #22 on: December 29, 2012, 12:42:37 AM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Quote
- it's treeeeeem

Nobody knows what Tremulous is.  You could ask 10,000 people on a city street, and expect about 3~4 to give you a positive answer.


Ask linux gaming community what Tremulous is, or would they love A+ quality game native for linux. They would love it.
This is the niche that we are discarding with some of choices.

- should trem2 be open-sourced
- should trem2 be native for linux
- should trem2 be for linux via wine (some extra work there but possible)
- should trem2 be free (price)
- should trem2 be free from any copyright protection crap
- should trem2 be free from DRM bullshit (and usuall crap, or always-online bullcrap like Silent Hunter 4 that enraged all users and why long time fans stoped buying orginal Ubisoft games and PREFER pirated version --- though of course in case of trem2 anyway user are expected to be online, but still DRM sucks always)

All this are separate questions which small minded people can forget that are different topics (but related).

With saying "NO" to any and each of this points you discard part of users base.

There are tons of normal games and it's so hard to compete.

There are few nice games that say YES to all above, they have instant fame in their niche.

0.1% of windows fps gamers know of tremulous
but
~30% (or more) of linux fps gamers know about: tremulous, urban-terror, maybe open-arena, alien-arena, and even Wesnoth, FreeCiv, LinCity.

It could turn out that going for given niche is more then going to be one of endless stream of mainstream games.





Quote
E.g. WoW could now as well be free and open source (software) because you pay for the service (servers) and economy.

World of Warcraft cannot be open-source, because then everyone would hack in additional items+gold 'n shit.  It would also make botting disgustingly easy. 

Keeping T2 closed-source enables infinite possibilities for bot detection and automatic banning.  Vault Anti-Cheat is a prime example.  It will actually detect other programs on your computer that are 'scanning' the pixels on screen like color-bots.

You are wrong on all this examples, and this is why:

- "hack gold and shit" - lol. Of course my server would not accept any gold or items made on your server. Open-source CLIENT does not mean one can HACK someones server you know...
Server-side code is protected obviously (either open or closed as long as not hacked).

- "Keeping T2 closed-source enables infinite possibilities for bot detection and automatic banning."
no, you can still edit the program the same way as you can edit open source program, though you have much more fucking around in assembler instead of code full of comments.
Still this is doable if someone wants.
Boters will bot.

Do you need examples of closed-source bottable games? You just said most games are (or where) closed-source (indeed) - so all this games, take this FPSes that are botable - and there is counter example for your naive claim that closed-source guarantees no bots.

Sadly Rota also thinks the later (cs = no bots) and this is just plainly incorrect as many examples show.


« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 12:54:12 AM by EpicalDude »
http://forum.tremulous2.com/index.php?topic=48.msg596#msg596
Gunther (junior admin) : "break the forums"
Challenge accepted :8 (I won)

Offline Machine Medic #23 on: December 29, 2012, 01:54:02 AM

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
  • Likes: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Been there. Done that.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Quote
~30% (or more) of linux fps gamers know about: tremulous, urban-terror, maybe open-arena, alien-arena, and even Wesnoth, FreeCiv, LinCity.

Let's do some math here:

1% of all computers are Linux
[All over]
30% of Linux users

Results to 0.0(1/3)%

A VERY small number.

Which is why it is not worthwhile for AAA-Games to sit around having a 'wankfest' looking for a weaker, alternative game engine to build Tremulous 2 on.

Also, you posted in the wrong topic.

Quote
no, you can still edit the program the same way as you can edit open source program, though you have much more fucking around in assembler

Which is why closed-source games have much less difficulty with botters and hackers.  There are a lot less of them, and dealing with them is easier.

Quote
Do you need examples of closed-source bottable games? You just said most games are (or where) closed-source (indeed) - so all this games, take this FPSes that are botable - and there is counter example for your naive claim that closed-source guarantees no bots.

I was saying that client-side anticheat software is possible if the game is released through Steam, because the devs can require mandatory client versions that contain this software.

Anything else *cough*opensource*cough* would be completely vulnerable, and would require people like me to deal with sh*theads with aimbots all day long again.  It's fun for all of about the first three months.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 01:58:39 AM by Machine Medic »
2x 980ti @1.3GHz, 5820k @ 4.4GHz, 32GB DDR4 @ 2.4GHz, SSD 950 512GB & 850 1024GB.

=\Co-Leader of Contra Clan/=

Offline EpicalDude #24 on: December 29, 2012, 02:11:01 AM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Quote
~30% (or more) of linux fps gamers know about: tremulous, urban-terror, maybe open-arena, alien-arena, and even Wesnoth, FreeCiv, LinCity.

Let's do some math here:

1% of all computers are Linux
[All over]
30% of Linux users

Results to 0.0(1/3)%

A VERY small number.

10 million linux desktop users (based on Wikipedia - In January 2009 the New York Times stated: "More than 10 million people are estimated to run Ubuntu today".[23] http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/business/11ubuntu.html?_r=2&th&emc=th)

Lets say 10% of linux desktop uses play computer games including FPS, and if T2 would be most pro game then I hope 10% would get it.

10*1000*1000 * 0.10 * 0.10 * 15 USD = 1.5 million USD if the game would be 15 USD / if the people would pre-order / kickstart for 15 USD each.

Yeah very "A VERY small number." was you said, lollolol you are so ignorant on using basic web search or le Mathematics or anything...

Which is why it is not worthwhile for AAA-Games to sit around having a 'wankfest' looking for a weaker, alternative game engine to build Tremulous 2 on.

You can not really say what is most important before you identify the target audiences, what they want, what they hate and how big they are.

What is know now:

1) Linux / Open-Source gamers:
- love open source
- will love Trem (they like it, or they didnt heared of it yet but there is marketing to be done then) because there just arent that many other FPS to play
- will hate windows only and closed source product
- are often open to kickstarter esp for the first professional open source crrowdfounded game

2) Regular windows gamers:
- have basilion other games to choose from...

I did some calculation as shown above. Since FPS market on linux is so niche, it might be actually more profitable to be 1 of 3 top games there then 1 of 10000 mainstream games.
Or not.
That needs to be carefully calculated.
Your attitude "omg opensource = no money, riiight?" is just retarded and that is my point here.

Quote
no, you can still edit the program the same way as you can edit open source program, though you have much more fucking around in assembler
Which is why closed-source games have much less difficulty with botters and hackers.  There are a lot less of them, and dealing with them is easier.

Then why closed source MineCraft is hacked all the time. And all the others.
All other FPSes I seen, that where closed source mostly, where bottable.
I didn't yet seen any really unbottable client side FPS.

Quote
Do you need examples of closed-source bottable games? You just said most games are (or where) closed-source (indeed) - so all this games, take this FPSes that are botable - and there is counter example for your naive claim that closed-source guarantees no bots.

I was saying that client-side anticheat software is possible if the game is released through Steam, because the devs can require mandatory client versions that contain this software.

Ok this software is possible.
And still it is defeated if anyone cares.
So?

Example that I know myself: minecraft is hacked as hell despite code obfuscation.

Anything else *cough*opensource*cough* would be completely vulnerable, and would require people like me to deal with sh*theads with aimbots all day long again.  It's fun for all of about the first three months.

Yeah Closed-source removes all cheaters same as monitoring every online communication and heaving a Nigger grab your doughter's boobies on airport removes all terrorism,
and as all DRM removed all piracy.
Hint: all of this is total fallacy.
So don't go so americutn on this.

Botters gonna bot. You can never be 100% secure from client site programs and close sourcing is not going to slow them down that much either.

Maybe they will slow them down a bit but really you can't win with cheaters.
1) noob cheaters will be stoped by slightest prolbem, like "have to google the patches to open source program and compil.. uh.. what is compile.. fuck it"
2) real chaters will get cheats for closed source AS ALWAYS THEY DO.

So there is not much point for fighting 2 because you can not win, make admins, make close tournaments with friends and so on, it works for years and its fine.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 02:16:24 AM by EpicalDude »
http://forum.tremulous2.com/index.php?topic=48.msg596#msg596
Gunther (junior admin) : "break the forums"
Challenge accepted :8 (I won)

Offline kdude63 #25 on: December 29, 2012, 02:17:57 AM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Likes: 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • My blog
    • Awards
So many die-hard Linux users are all asshurt that they can't blow Linus Torvalds while playing T2 on an operating system that has absolutely no market value whatsoever.

Also, you know how many of those people are going to actually see that kickstarter? Like, 0.3% maybe? Yeah. Please... Just accept the fucking reality that T2 on Linux isn't going to happen, and wouldn't be financially worth it anyway.

I can guarantee that UE3 is never going to be fully ported to Linux if at all, by anyone, ever. Pull your head out of your ass, and stop wasting people's time.

Offline EpicalDude #26 on: December 29, 2012, 02:31:16 AM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • Awards
So many die-hard Linux users are all asshurt that they can't blow Linus Torvalds while playing T2 on an operating system that has absolutely no market value whatsoever.

And this so incredibly enthusiastic people are still looking for The linux game and look like serious zealots that will blown lots on moneys on it.

I hope mainstream windows gamers will fell so enthusiastic about yet another 1000th shooter with some weird twist to the story.
Trem is a very weak game by current standards and still have fans because is in niche.
Go out of this niche and you are against best developers in the world. This might be really hard even for most talented.

Also, you know how many of those people are going to actually see that kickstarter? Like, 0.3% maybe? Yeah. Please... Just accept the fucking reality that T2 on Linux isn't going to happen, and wouldn't be financially worth it anyway.

Of course T2 on linux will happen at least as linux+wine, the question is what other options will be viable for both players and the business operation of developers, as I calculated above and noobs without good argumetns like you ignored happily :)

I can guarantee that UE3 is never going to be fully ported to Linux if at all, by anyone, ever. Pull your head out of your ass, and stop wasting people's time.

Are you the spokesperson of UE3 developers?

Q2-Q4, Doom3, absolutely leading engines in their time with dozens of top hits based on them - where linux; linux native even.

Also, why not, if all underlying libs OpenGL / OpenAL / sounds libs, networking libs, even OpenCL / gpucpu libs are any way cross platform.

If steam is seriously going to linux and the declarations of developers (Valve, Minecraft's team) about ditching / hating windows 8 are going to be true, smart engine developers should keep tradition of making their engines portable if the effort for it is lowered by the crossplatform libraries.


http://forum.tremulous2.com/index.php?topic=48.msg596#msg596
Gunther (junior admin) : "break the forums"
Challenge accepted :8 (I won)

Offline kdude63 #27 on: December 29, 2012, 02:38:59 AM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Likes: 4
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • My blog
    • Awards
You have no argument with the kickstarter. Just because there are millions of people that are going to want the game if they see it, doesn't mean that they are going to see it. At all.

And Windows 8 sucks. I completely agree. And if Microsoft doesn't clean up their act, you're right. They're going to end up dead. But Valve completely dropping Windows support is possibly the stupidest notion I have ever heard. That's 90%+ of their profit. Any decent gamer isn't going to move past Windows 7 anyway.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 02:41:14 AM by kdude63 »

Offline Machine Medic #28 on: December 29, 2012, 02:48:38 AM

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
  • Likes: 12
  • Gender: Male
  • Been there. Done that.
    • View Profile
    • Awards
Quote from: Machine Medic
I was saying that client-side anticheat software is possible if the game is released through Steam, because the devs can require mandatory client versions that contain this software.

Quote from: Epicaldude
Yeah Closed-source removes all cheaters same as monitoring every online communication and heaving a Nigger grab your doughter's boobies on airport removes all terrorism,

Not what I said.

And I'll be surprised and disappointed if all that language use doesn't get you a few warnings in the near future.

Quote
Ok this software is possible.
And still it is defeated if anyone cares.
So?

Example that I know myself: minecraft is hacked as hell despite code obfuscation.

Minecraft is one of the most crappily-built games on earth, tbh.  It's fun, it's lightweight, but it is not a solid, well built game.



Pretty sure 'epicaldude' is a troll at this point.

« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 02:52:11 AM by Machine Medic »
2x 980ti @1.3GHz, 5820k @ 4.4GHz, 32GB DDR4 @ 2.4GHz, SSD 950 512GB & 850 1024GB.

=\Co-Leader of Contra Clan/=

Offline EpicalDude #29 on: December 29, 2012, 02:52:43 AM

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Likes: 0
    • View Profile
    • Awards
You have no argument with the kickstarter. Just because there are millions of people that are going to want the game if they see it, doesn't mean that they are going to see it. At all.

Very good observation, thank you again for proving my point.

Point: marketing is hard.

Compare "zomg most pro game EVER on linux ! go pre buy on kickstarter! wooo" imagin all the linux fanboys across globe at least checking it out.

Compare with... "hey anooooother shooter. with some evolution thing going on or something.. yeah" *crickets*.

If you know how say slashdot effect works, or humble-bundle, etc you can probably guess which will be selling itself and will be known for years as first e.g. completely free pro linux native game
and which will suck up tons of money for marketing competing with entire world for the limited attention span of mainstream FPS players.


Quote
And Windows 8 sucks. I completely agree. And if Microsoft doesn't clean up their act, you're right. They're going to end up dead. But Valve completely dropping Windows support is possibly the stupidest notion I have ever heard. That's 90%+ of their profit. Any decent gamer isn't going to move past Windows 7 anyway.
Well I wish a quick death to windows (because they are assholes, but thats another topic completely) and one lovelly scenario would be for windows 8 desktop to follow w8 mobile: totally die and make place for linux as it happened on mobiles: 50% linux(android), iphone, RMI, and ~10% nokia/w8.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 02:57:47 AM by EpicalDude »
http://forum.tremulous2.com/index.php?topic=48.msg596#msg596
Gunther (junior admin) : "break the forums"
Challenge accepted :8 (I won)